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yvannairie) wrote2020-03-01 11:21 am
Speaking of oblique language communicating a variety of things, not all of them intended
From a using-language-for-communication perspective, I've always hated memes.
I'm not being hyperbolic; my first exposure to what is now a proper "meme culture" (blech) was just as another form of referential speech, used to build community between those in the know and those -- like me -- who weren't. Memes have always had the same effect as jokes (in that if you don't get the punch line, you're automatically excluded) except they also didn't have structural or vocabulary rules, so there was not even a way to make peace with them and understand that something was a meme from context like the way you can with jokes. They stress me out, and for the longest time I though there was zero legitimate reason to engage in memetic speech.
(And this is where the linguists who follow me are like "that's not how it works", and I feel your pain -- I'd use a better word for this whole fucking nonsense but "meme" is the one internet chose so now we all get to be mad about how that's so imprecise as to be useless.)
Internet memes are the ultimate example of the tendency of people to substitute common ground for real communication, and refusing to clarify whether they're speaking metaphorically or not. It's a nuance I'm not capable of picking up on my own in any instance, and it's also a nuance that is lost between groups -- a problem I solve by being as straightforward and as exact as I possibly can, which has historically opened me up to a lot of mockery. People say laughing brings us together, but what with how specific humour is to a group, jokes aren't integrative unless you're willing to explain them.
And, like, ngl, it made me feel like a freak even by ND standards, because almost every other ND I know loves the shit out of memery.
I don't get it. On an emotional level, I just don't get it.
However on a practical level, I've come to accept that a) for some people, the ability to signal themselves as a part of a group is important and b) memes are a super easy socially acceptable way to scratch the echolalia itch. Combine that with absurdism coming easily to ND folks whose brains are already wired for pattern-recognition, and it makes sense to me that so many ND love memes.
But I still really fucking hate them. I hate the way anything can be a meme, and that anything can become a meme.I hate the way language gets sloganeered, which makes discussing things harder, especially when it happens to generic concepts. I get so frustrated with peopple who rely on repeating memes and their emotional cache, without seemingly understanding that their reliance on this uncommon "common code" immediately makes them incomprehensible and offputting for people who do not speak in that code. It insulates them from people who don't already think like them, watch all the same media, hang out in the same ever-constricting social circles.
I feel like a lot of wank persists entirely because people keep repeating the language they picked up when they first saw it, creating a memetic association to the topic, and not once think that by changing the language, they change the discussion. Like, my latest rage about people entirely unthinkingly repeating anti rhetoric is a really nice nutshell about why this is a problem. Not to mention, for me someone speaking in meme-laden language is someone who's just sending out powerful signals of "I'm desperate to belong and will do anything to fit in" -- and at this point, I find that a pretty fucking unsafe feature in a person.
And even if a part of me accepts that using memes well is just like using allegory well -- it can condense complicated ideas, bypass literal understanding to speak directly to the unique experience someone may have -- I refuse to believe that "meme culture" (blech) is truly anything but another elaborate surface level of easy us-vs-them distinction, and I resent being forced to engage in it.
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I understand what you're saying about this and why you dislike it, and I can sympathize to a certain extent even if I don't have the same total aversion.
But I think the tendency to create memes is a natural and inherent human tendency, like the tendency to create in-jokes (or simply to refer to shared knowledge and events as a shorthand or simply as an appeal to solidarity... which is possibly all that in-jokes are) - and memes are like in-jokes, although they have a notable quality of jumping from group to group, often without (wholly) retaining their original meanings and contexts. So 'meme culture' is really a feature of every culture, in one way or another, and one which tends to grow into a subculture because of the power of signs and symbols.
I don't say these tendencies are pure or even value-neutral or that they have to be accepted with equanimity, of course. Just that they're an unfortunate but fundamental feature of human nature and that they come from the combination of social behavior (how people go about forming themselves into groups and sub-groups and how those connections are used) and communication behavior: namely, as you noted, the fact that a lot of people's ability to communicate is limited by a lack of critical analysis so they don't realize (or know why they should care) that they're being inexact about what they mean, and often don't even realize how full of memes (slang, cliches, references) their communication is in the first place, let alone that the level of imitation is related to group membership and their desire to belong.
It is a constant source of frustration, to me and you and many other people, that these problems with communication can't really be gotten around because they essentially arise from how the brain works, and that this deficit in critical analysis on the part of most people most of the time, and all people much of the time, is similarly ineradicable, and causes plenty of other problems besides lazy and inexact speech patterns (and bland unselfconscious prose that's just a regurgitated stew of half-digested clichés and pathetically thin imitations of well-known canons... if we are focusing on the facet of poor communication that irritates ME the most often).
And the human tendencies to Us-vs-Them are really so sinister that calling them a 'source of frustration' would really be an insulting level of understatement. It's a fundamental species characteristic, evidently, though, tied to our most powerful instincts, and IMO is right up there in the list of The Species' Worst Flaws with the notable pattern of adult humans preying on and recreationally killing juvenile humans (at least this is not a UNIQUE human flaw since, for example, brown bears and polar bears share it, and I think adult male walruses kill juvenile walruses frequently although more from carelessness than for fun).
I am not sure if my ultimate point is that you shouldn't feel bad for being annoyed by these forces because you're right about them, or that you shouldn't waste too much emotional energy railing against them because they are so powerful. The latter is probably pointless anyway, given I never take advice of that type myself since I'm incapable of stopping being angry about something that really pisses me off (although I definitely dutifully tell myself to whenever it would be the logical course).
I do want to point out that there is a glimmer of light in that social engineering can successfully (with varying degrees of success) compensate for flaws in human behavior, and since it sometimes manages to clarify communications and reduce inter-group explosions, there's no reason to assume it couldn't affect meme usage.
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>this deficit in critical analysis on the part of most people most of the time, and all people much of the time, is similarly ineradicable
And this is pretty much why! My entire life I've been made to feel like I'm at fault for bad communication because I'm not "thinking enough" at what I'm saying, and now when I've reached the point where I'm pretty comfortable determining what is "enough" thinking for myself I realise that this is just what *all* humans do, that I've been guilted about it for nothing by people who are even worse at it than I am, and no matter my effort, everyone is just gonna keep doing it anyway! So what the fuck did I suffer all of that looking-down and made-to-feel-crazy *for* if other people can't be bothered to do the same?
>And the human tendencies to Us-vs-Them are really so sinister that calling them a 'source of frustration' would really be an insulting level of understatement.
It is, but even it is kind of. Double-edged in the sense that the ability to determine an "us" is what also gives people a lot of their good qualities. And the "us" is not unmalleable, we joke about humans being able to pack-bond with anything, but having our worst and best feature be the same fucking feature is fucked up.
>I am not sure if my ultimate point is that you shouldn't feel bad for being annoyed by these forces because you're right about them,
Honestly, I'll take it. Thanks. Thing is, I sort of know I'm going crazy and attributing a lot of complicated problems to a single element when I make posts like this -- I don't even have a solution to this, I'm just expressing my distaste now when I've figured out what it is that is so distasteful -- and hearing that they have at least *some* validity is as relieving as it is depressing
>or that you shouldn't waste too much emotional energy railing against them because they are so powerful
and this is why -- because if I don't sometimes open the valve inside my brain and go stand on a cliff screaming at the futility of it all, then I will *actually* go crazy. Communication is wrapped up in so much shame, pain and humiliation for me, and I put both real effort and anxious overthinking into it that sometimes that the memes are also an allegory for how much I hate needing to use my mouthwords around people who aren't me.
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Oh, I see, this is a valid complaint and probably the nub of the issue? I would guess that this complaint is... (ironically?)... a poor attempt at expressing whatever it was the people actually wanted to say to you, or at least an unsuccessful attempt at communicating whatever it was they meant. I'm hardly an expert, but I'm pretty sure that NT and non-NT communication difficulties are generally not ultimately caused by non-NT people not thinking enough about what they say. Possibly it's an attempted replacement for "Remember that other people are alien beings whose internal processes won't make sense for you, and always make plenty of allowances for somehow deducing what the successful way to communicate with them would be, or else it's your fault"?
Either way though, I feel your pain, but it's totally in character for society to be sending completely inconsistent and mixed messages like insisting it's morally required for you to internally audit everything you say and do however many times it takes to completely avoid any inconvenience for NT people, and also insisting that any communication breakdowns that do happen were the result of accidental carelessness, if any, on the part of NT people and therefore can't morally be held against them. Of course part of the reason for these mixed messages is that the people who deliver them are often different people and sometimes the inconsistency is simply because society isn't a monolith, so maybe on Monday you really did meet someone who earnestly believes that all you have to do is think harder and it will all be okay and maybe they would earnestly swear that everybody does the same (and they'd just be wrong). But in practice that doesn't matter if it's always some loud person showing you, personally, the unfair end of the stick and giving someone else the benefit of the doubt. (I hope that wasn't too much figure of speech, as I realize you just said you hate it...)
Well, you could say that banding together for survival/against threats and living cooperatively is humanity's best feature (although I'm not sure I'd give it #1 and there are many other animals that do the same), and it's aggression that is really the bad one, albeit aggression filtered through the whole group-bonding thing. After all, lower aggression could remove or reduce the violence without erasing the tendency to form groups in the first place, perhaps even without getting rid of the instinct that members of other groups are 'enemies'.
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And it's like... do these people think memes like "die by my sword"/"I will have your kneecaps" mean nothing? Like, do they think those words are essentially the same kind of random word salad as other memes they repeat? Because I thought it was commonly accepted that you can reinforce or create thought patterns where none exist when jokes about feeling suicidal resulted in the black pill movement and we all collectively realised that reinforcing a sense of hopelessness about the world isn't good.
I wouldn't be nearly as frustrated with memes if the majority of them were used with understanding that just because someone catches that you're making an oblique reference, that doesn't mean that the words used to make that reference don't still exist. Being incomprehensible is a problem but being blithedly unaware of the tone you're taking towards people not "in the know" is even worse, and is worse in evermore insidious ways because this way of using language is what's been wrong with conversations about sociological concepts online for a long time now.
Also as a minor nitpick -- after a while all these people just sound the same. They have no identity of their own, when I try to think what distinguishes them from each other (other than what I end up having beef with them over, lol) I can't think of anything that isn't a super personal detail. I should very fucking well hope that I have an actual personality that isn't just "I have seen this thing online so now I'm repeating it to create a false sense of community".
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Like a conversation like that is maybe nice as a signifier that you're on the same wavelength about some basic politics, but when those meme conversations just turn into super esoteric memes or "ironic" memes about Jews or whatever, it gets way more difficult to discern what--if anything--is being communicated.
Like people really just up and say "oh nooo, I dropped my magnum condom for my monster dong" just... out of the blue with zero context, zero relationship to anything else going on, zero actual thought about how... kind of inappropriate of a thing that is to just say randomly for no reason.
I personally hate "I'm gonna kermit," lmao. There are crafty way to make suicidal ideation jokes but the phrasing of that one is just so far from what I actually find funny or amusing or witty or novel that it just irritates me. I hate memes that are just saying things weird and being wildly hyperbolistic in a way that's not even supposed to be amusing. I straight-up do not understand what I'm supposed to get out of meme speak like that.
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And just like any other time it's done to just some random word, it's so infuriating if you actually wanna use that word. Uuuuurgh.
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